Nahas on AR, Swapo Expulsions and Governance
October 16th, 2015 | by New Era Staff Reporter
Retired former PM Nahas Angula talks to Managing Editor Toivo Ndjebela about wide-ranging issues currently happening in the country. He retired from government in March this year.
New Era (NE): How would you describe your retirement so far?
Nahas Angula (NA): My retirement is the best thing that could have ever happened to any person aged over 70. You know that since I left Namibia in 1965, I supposed you were not born, to join the struggle abroad – besides the years I spend at universities – I dedicated my youth to public life, so my contribution to assignments that Swapo gave me as a young person, that took me 23 years in exile – running and building Swapo schools, sending young people to study abroad, preparing for independence and all that. Then 1990 we came back and for 25 years I was in government and again you are always on your toes, especially in light of the assignments I was assigned to, first with the sector of education, as prime minister and as minister of defence. I never found time to do my own things, even to read the books of my liking. Now I have all that time.
NE: So apart from reading your books of choice, what else have you been up to since leaving government in March?
NA: I have different types of preoccupations. I’m engaged in what we call the civic public good. Those are the things you do to enhance the welfare of the public. My interest is especially in child survival, youth skills development and of course knowledge production. I don’t do this for gain, but for public good. When I was prime minister, I brought together like-minded people to establish a multi-sectoral organisation called Namibia Alliance for Improved Nutrition, focusing on child nutrition. The reason why Namibia could not meet all MDGs was because there was a high level of nutrition among the infants. When an infant is malnourished, the get opportunistic diseases and the likelihood is that they would die. They don’t grow physically and their intellectual development does not happen optimally. So it’s a vicious cycle.
With regards to youth, you know that I’ve been running an organisation called the Foundation for Community Skills Development. The idea is to give opportunities to out-of-school youths to acquire skills and I’m happy that our contribution is that every year we enrol more than 2000 people to give them basic skills at our community skills development centers. They idea is to keep them out of the streets.
With knowledge production, we want to produce knowledge which can be used in policy development. It is also part of my civic contribution to public good.
NE: And what have you been doing for your own good?
NA: I am interested in rural development and agriculture. So sometimes I spend my time doing farming or trying to generate some pilot projects in the rural areas. You see, our people like to imitate. If they see you putting up a poultry farm, the next day you see them putting up the same project form themselves. There are no fresh ideas. So I’m trying to impart some ideas which they can follow. They can’t all be selling beer.
NE: What do you miss most about being in government?
NA: I miss nothing. I can’t miss high blood pressure. I totally miss nothing.
NE: Having served in government for over two decades, which portfolio did you enjoy the most and why?
NA: I like to work with children, so my long stay in the sector of education was the most rewarding. When you are working with young people you know you are preparing the future. When I see our young people being so articulate or being in careers that were not accessible to my generation, I feel very happy that we provided them with a path for intellectual development.
NE: What was the most challenging portfolio you’ve held in government?
NA: My friend, to be prime minister is a tough job. It’s like you are working for a fire brigade – putting down fires all the time. When workers go on strike, whether the ministry of labour can handle it, you have to come in. When there is a quarrel between the minister and the permanent secretary, you have to go in there. Then you have parliament where you sometimes struggle just to get a quorum. It’s a challenge. I actually lost my health during my time in that portfolio, because I was simply tired all the time. It was a tough job.
NE: How did you leave that job? What motivated your demotion?
NA: That question belongs to His Excellency Dr Pohamba. He had the prerogative to assign people, but for me I don’t care where I’m working in government. Any portfolio I get, I tried to develop competencies there.
NE: Could this be because your salary and other perks were not affected by your redeployment to the defence ministry?
NA: That depended on the President again. He said ‘okay, since you have only two years to go, your package stays the same’. But as a public servant, you must be prepared to work anywhere.
NE: What do you make of the current status of education in the country?
NA: Education by definition is a challenge. You are dealing with learners, parents, communities, politicians and everybody else. People have a wrong conception about education. Education is just an enabler, meaning other sectors must get involved in order for the education fruits to blossom. You can educate, but if your economy continues to be an extractive economy, like ours, these young people will not get better returns on their investment because opportunities are so limited in an extractive economy. There are concerns. There are regions that are consistently at the bottom of the performance tables. Also, our cultural groups are concentrated in certain regions. If nothing is done, what will happen in the long run is that some region who are producing good results will produce leaders in different sectors of society in the future, to the exclusion of the poorly performing regions. If I were asked to give advice I’d say that instead of re-inventing the wheel, when new ministers throw away ideas of their predecessors, simply improve on what you found in place. One key thing is that we have to give emphasis to vocational training to give practical skills to our people. Not everybody will go to you university. Artisans are the people who are behind industrial development in countries such as Germany. So we need a dual system of training. I’m not sure if the honourable ministers who are there are thinking in those terms, but you can tell them this is what the old man is saying [laughing].
NE: As an outsider now, what is your overall perspective of the Namibian government?
NA: Government is just government. A government is just as good as those who are leading it. At every different time you have different challenges. The new government has come in facing different challenges, for example, we had a total crop failure and government has to feed the nation. In a situation like that government is forced to use money originally meant for development to buy food. The Foot and Mouth Disease scourge was also unforeseen. Energy and water shortages are also feared and those in government have to deal with it. There is enough competence to deal with that.
NE: What has impressed you so far about President Hage Geingob’s administration?
NA: His emphasis on poverty is laudable. I’ve been worried myself about the level of poverty and inequality in our country that’s why as a civic citizen I’m trying to make my small contribution too. Of course it’s one thing to make a commitment and another to put that into action. We must give them time.
NE: Government is perceived to have a bloated structure now – too many advisors, two deputy ministers in some ministries and so forth. What’s your personal view on this?
NA: Well, all leaders have their own style of governing and they are entitled to implement what they think is the best way of governing. I must however say that the modern theory of organisational development is a theory called ‘agile organisation’. They are lean organisations which are flexible and which can respond to change in a short time. So agility is the key word in organisational development at the moment. I’m not saying our president must follow that line, I’m only saying that is the new thing in organisational development. [In Namibia] the people who were appointed in those jobs must demonstrate that the rewards they get, remuneration and other perks, are earned. But again I say give them time.
NE: How involved are you currently with activities of the ruling party Swapo?
NA: I’m a member of the political bureau and central committee. I participate in those meetings and if Swapo gives me assignments, I’ll carry them out.
NE: So being a member of those two bodies, we can safely say you were central to the decisions to expel four youth league leaders in July?
NA: I was not central to that, but I was part of it.
NE: What are your views on the manner the expulsions were executed?
NA: You know that matter is before the courts, I don’t really want to talk about it. Let the courts exercise their own mind to make a final decision. I can only tell you that my guiding principle in life, especially in politics and decision-making, is fairness.
NE: Speculation persists that you’ll come back to vie for a top position in Swapo at the 2017 congress…
NA: Who gave you that rumour? I get assigned by Swapo, so if I’m assigned I’ll look at it and see if it’s worth considering. I must however say that perhaps we give too much emphasis and priority to politics. We should also learn to work. To create wealth. Perhaps rewards from politics are what one can call low-hanged food. We must learn to make effort in other fields.
NE: What are your views on Affirmative Repositioning and the struggle for land in general?
NA: In democracy, pressure groups are allowed. Read your constitution, it allows you to form associations or whatever to influence policy. As for the question of housing, that’s a major challenge for our young people. I’m happy that the Prersident took a courageous step to engage thse young people over the question of land. Solved or not solved, no party should blame the other because they were both part of it.
Retired former PM Nahas Angula talks to Managing Editor Toivo Ndjebela about wide-ranging issues currently happening in the country. He retired from government in March this year.
New Era (NE): How would you describe your retirement so far?
Nahas Angula (NA): My retirement is the best thing that could have ever happened to any person aged over 70. You know that since I left Namibia in 1965, I supposed you were not born, to join the struggle abroad – besides the years I spend at universities – I dedicated my youth to public life, so my contribution to assignments that Swapo gave me as a young person, that took me 23 years in exile – running and building Swapo schools, sending young people to study abroad, preparing for independence and all that. Then 1990 we came back and for 25 years I was in government and again you are always on your toes, especially in light of the assignments I was assigned to, first with the sector of education, as prime minister and as minister of defence. I never found time to do my own things, even to read the books of my liking. Now I have all that time.
NE: So apart from reading your books of choice, what else have you been up to since leaving government in March?
NA: I have different types of preoccupations. I’m engaged in what we call the civic public good. Those are the things you do to enhance the welfare of the public. My interest is especially in child survival, youth skills development and of course knowledge production. I don’t do this for gain, but for public good. When I was prime minister, I brought together like-minded people to establish a multi-sectoral organisation called Namibia Alliance for Improved Nutrition, focusing on child nutrition. The reason why Namibia could not meet all MDGs was because there was a high level of nutrition among the infants. When an infant is malnourished, the get opportunistic diseases and the likelihood is that they would die. They don’t grow physically and their intellectual development does not happen optimally. So it’s a vicious cycle.
With regards to youth, you know that I’ve been running an organisation called the Foundation for Community Skills Development. The idea is to give opportunities to out-of-school youths to acquire skills and I’m happy that our contribution is that every year we enrol more than 2000 people to give them basic skills at our community skills development centers. They idea is to keep them out of the streets.
With knowledge production, we want to produce knowledge which can be used in policy development. It is also part of my civic contribution to public good.
NE: And what have you been doing for your own good?
NA: I am interested in rural development and agriculture. So sometimes I spend my time doing farming or trying to generate some pilot projects in the rural areas. You see, our people like to imitate. If they see you putting up a poultry farm, the next day you see them putting up the same project form themselves. There are no fresh ideas. So I’m trying to impart some ideas which they can follow. They can’t all be selling beer.
NE: What do you miss most about being in government?
NA: I miss nothing. I can’t miss high blood pressure. I totally miss nothing.
NE: Having served in government for over two decades, which portfolio did you enjoy the most and why?
NA: I like to work with children, so my long stay in the sector of education was the most rewarding. When you are working with young people you know you are preparing the future. When I see our young people being so articulate or being in careers that were not accessible to my generation, I feel very happy that we provided them with a path for intellectual development.
NE: What was the most challenging portfolio you’ve held in government?
NA: My friend, to be prime minister is a tough job. It’s like you are working for a fire brigade – putting down fires all the time. When workers go on strike, whether the ministry of labour can handle it, you have to come in. When there is a quarrel between the minister and the permanent secretary, you have to go in there. Then you have parliament where you sometimes struggle just to get a quorum. It’s a challenge. I actually lost my health during my time in that portfolio, because I was simply tired all the time. It was a tough job.
NE: How did you leave that job? What motivated your demotion?
NA: That question belongs to His Excellency Dr Pohamba. He had the prerogative to assign people, but for me I don’t care where I’m working in government. Any portfolio I get, I tried to develop competencies there.
NE: Could this be because your salary and other perks were not affected by your redeployment to the defence ministry?
NA: That depended on the President again. He said ‘okay, since you have only two years to go, your package stays the same’. But as a public servant, you must be prepared to work anywhere.
NE: What do you make of the current status of education in the country?
NA: Education by definition is a challenge. You are dealing with learners, parents, communities, politicians and everybody else. People have a wrong conception about education. Education is just an enabler, meaning other sectors must get involved in order for the education fruits to blossom. You can educate, but if your economy continues to be an extractive economy, like ours, these young people will not get better returns on their investment because opportunities are so limited in an extractive economy. There are concerns. There are regions that are consistently at the bottom of the performance tables. Also, our cultural groups are concentrated in certain regions. If nothing is done, what will happen in the long run is that some region who are producing good results will produce leaders in different sectors of society in the future, to the exclusion of the poorly performing regions. If I were asked to give advice I’d say that instead of re-inventing the wheel, when new ministers throw away ideas of their predecessors, simply improve on what you found in place. One key thing is that we have to give emphasis to vocational training to give practical skills to our people. Not everybody will go to you university. Artisans are the people who are behind industrial development in countries such as Germany. So we need a dual system of training. I’m not sure if the honourable ministers who are there are thinking in those terms, but you can tell them this is what the old man is saying [laughing].
NE: As an outsider now, what is your overall perspective of the Namibian government?
NA: Government is just government. A government is just as good as those who are leading it. At every different time you have different challenges. The new government has come in facing different challenges, for example, we had a total crop failure and government has to feed the nation. In a situation like that government is forced to use money originally meant for development to buy food. The Foot and Mouth Disease scourge was also unforeseen. Energy and water shortages are also feared and those in government have to deal with it. There is enough competence to deal with that.
NE: What has impressed you so far about President Hage Geingob’s administration?
NA: His emphasis on poverty is laudable. I’ve been worried myself about the level of poverty and inequality in our country that’s why as a civic citizen I’m trying to make my small contribution too. Of course it’s one thing to make a commitment and another to put that into action. We must give them time.
NE: Government is perceived to have a bloated structure now – too many advisors, two deputy ministers in some ministries and so forth. What’s your personal view on this?
NA: Well, all leaders have their own style of governing and they are entitled to implement what they think is the best way of governing. I must however say that the modern theory of organisational development is a theory called ‘agile organisation’. They are lean organisations which are flexible and which can respond to change in a short time. So agility is the key word in organisational development at the moment. I’m not saying our president must follow that line, I’m only saying that is the new thing in organisational development. [In Namibia] the people who were appointed in those jobs must demonstrate that the rewards they get, remuneration and other perks, are earned. But again I say give them time.
NE: How involved are you currently with activities of the ruling party Swapo?
NA: I’m a member of the political bureau and central committee. I participate in those meetings and if Swapo gives me assignments, I’ll carry them out.
NE: So being a member of those two bodies, we can safely say you were central to the decisions to expel four youth league leaders in July?
NA: I was not central to that, but I was part of it.
NE: What are your views on the manner the expulsions were executed?
NA: You know that matter is before the courts, I don’t really want to talk about it. Let the courts exercise their own mind to make a final decision. I can only tell you that my guiding principle in life, especially in politics and decision-making, is fairness.
NE: Speculation persists that you’ll come back to vie for a top position in Swapo at the 2017 congress…
NA: Who gave you that rumour? I get assigned by Swapo, so if I’m assigned I’ll look at it and see if it’s worth considering. I must however say that perhaps we give too much emphasis and priority to politics. We should also learn to work. To create wealth. Perhaps rewards from politics are what one can call low-hanged food. We must learn to make effort in other fields.
NE: What are your views on Affirmative Repositioning and the struggle for land in general?
NA: In democracy, pressure groups are allowed. Read your constitution, it allows you to form associations or whatever to influence policy. As for the question of housing, that’s a major challenge for our young people. I’m happy that the Prersident took a courageous step to engage thse young people over the question of land. Solved or not solved, no party should blame the other because they were both part of it.
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